Do we think this is this?" Other people who you could talk to about becomingabout this passion? Have there been important dealers that you've worked with that have influenced. You know, because at the time that's not the way they thought about those things. And there are 7.9 or eight billion people now. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Think about selling? There's a lot of blue hair. I think that isactually, I think five years is November of this year. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, in Virginia you can get a license at 15. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that the firstso you said that was the first painting? Another gallery, a different gallery? And by the time I was born, he was deceased and the family was bankrupt. We had four years of consultancy by Christopher Kingzett and Julian Agnew, who were running the firm before. He was a television actor, and now he's an attorney in the U.K., so. And my role has come down to the things I'm good at, which is financial management and, you know, making sure that we, I think, take measured aesthetic steps. For me, it's that doorway into history. And when I came back to them to ask about it and, you know, pursue it, they said, "Oh, the National Gallery of Washington just bought it," so it was gone. CLIFFORD SCHORER: as we have today. And I would buy all kinds of crazy things. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, it's very unusual forwell, when you talk about old art, and you talk about a, you know, an institutional collection, I know, for example, Worcester Art Museum has a policy, as do most American museums, you cannot lend to. And I think that was to my detriment, because certainly their wisdom could've saved me a lot of time. It was just crazy. I couldn't sort of spur of the moment go say, Oh, buy this because it's very interesting. And he said, "Well, ironically enough, Sotheby's"and I knewI could feel this sort ofwithout even asking the question, I knew that Noortman's days since the death of Robert Noortman were numbered. JUDITH RICHARDS: But for you as an individual collector? Clifford Schorer. [Laughs.] I was walking through the room, and they were giving this lecture, so I sat for the lecture, of course. I had never even heard of the Worcester Art Museum. Some of them were total disasters, like the fish tank building in Miami where the fish boiled. [They laugh.]. I think that they're, shall we say, more demanding of one's time, so you have to be available for them, and you have to work with them more individually. But they just weren'twith that type of a seller you need to be cash at the ready, because it's notthey're not going to bethese are folks you're approaching to say, "I may have a client for" They don't want to hear the next statement, "Well, I'd take a commission if you give it to me for a year to try to sell it." I never actually mentioned my age. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this is a field where you're not cultivating auction catalogues and, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I mean, that's the field. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you wanted to live in the middle of nowhere? So, all of my companies are project companies; they only make money if my projects are executed and are successful. So, you know, we met, we discussed it, and it was far more complex than I thought it would be. You talk to them about business; you talk to them about family. So do you have a plan that will stipulate, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, I recently did an estate. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I was stillI was still interested in stamps and coins. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. Clifford Schorer says he loaned Rendall an unspecified amount of money in 2012, and she backed the. 1. What kind of high school experience did you have? Yeah. I needed to think about walls. answer in a very finite category of pictures. JUDITH RICHARDS: You had no idea when you went to Plovdiv that there would be such a. But I went away, you know, tail between my legs, because it was absolutely unattainable for me. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, an art handler to move things around. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. Hasyou've talked about a lot of traveling to discover, to see things that you were going to see, destinations. Art collector Cliff Schorer recently located a missing painting by Dutch master Hendrick Avercamp after finding an image of it online on an $18 throw pillow. You know, military. During this period of time, the first decade of the century, were you coming across any preparatory drawings or other related material to these major works that you were studying and acquiring, or trying to acquire? And also, art, to me, is the thing that can carry you to the grave, which, you know, the trades that I do, I'm as good as my last project in the trades that I do. JUDITH RICHARDS: You were 18? New York? Have you always maintained fine art storage? And made their own discoveries. JUDITH RICHARDS: Having that expand? And you know, for me, when I go back and look at them later, I can laugh at myself, you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: the auctions and the collectors? There are a lot of areas that are uncontrolled in the museum, like all the antiquities are in areas that are uncontrolled. Chief of the Investigations Division, Inspector General's Department, Inspector General's Office (Washington, DC) B ack, George Irving. Just one huge vertebrae specimen, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And there was a lecture going on in front of my painting, with a big group of people, and somebody talking about the Counter-Reformation. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that a whole collection or just two? I said, you know, "They found it in 2004." You, 30 years ago. I mean, you know, I bought Byzantine crucifixes, you know, just because, you know, I was there. And I was still trying to buy, you know, what I could buy with a little bit of money in the stamps and coins world. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I said, "Sure. You know, there was aI forget who the famous collector was, that says, "I deal to collect." As most 25-year-old men marched off to war in 1861, artist Winslow Homer took a . Pronunciation of Clifford J. Schorer with 1 audio pronunciation and more for Clifford J. Schorer. You can admire; if you want to buy, you pay our price and you buy. JUDITH RICHARDS: You talked about the label just saying, "Private Collector." And so he gave me this Hefty bag and he told me to sort it. I wanted to start by asking you to say when and where you were born, and to talk about your immediate family, their names, and anyone else who was important to you in your family. And you know, so we spent, I don't know, 350 hours talking, I mean. JUDITH RICHARDS: So, in thoseyou mentioned your great-grandfather and his collectionwhen you were in grade school, and even in high school, what were your main interests? I was followed by a security guardthe wholejust followed around. I eventually liquidated Best Products. So the Museum of Fine Arts school in BostonI took my one class in Renaissance painting technique. The Rubens House, the Frans Snyders House, the Rockox House. I would say by theI would go to the library and I would read all the Sotheby's and Christie's catalogues, because they had a wealth of information. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I tried. And, you know, obviously, I've been concerned about the state of that scholarship, which I think of late has been very much slanted towards the marketplace. We did a Baroque-style porcelain fireplace by a Japanese artist named [Katsuyo] Aoki, this amazingly modern, white porcelain, beautiful fireplace. $14. Race, War, and Winslow Homer The artist's experiences in the Civil War and after helped him transcend stereotypes in portraying Black experience. And, you know, because of that, it creates incredible attribution controversies, which are passionate arguments about. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, all the time, yeah. Channel Bass, 1904 Painting. This growing passion? However, the first thing I seriously collected as an adultso, age 17 comes, I start a company, and within six months I'm making money. They invited my paleontological heroes, which they also did a wonderful job ofand I sat in the audience quietly, and then at the end of it, we came to an accommodation to create a permanent installation for the specimen, which is the largest specimen in the state. JUDITH RICHARDS: So how long did you work there as a programmer? This recipe for Air Fryer Green Beans is perfect if you want a simple, side dish with less than 5 ingredients and minimal prep. So I would basicallythat's whymy base of operations was Montreal. Clifford Schorer, a Boston-based collector, forgot to bring a present for the party he was attending, so he stopped by a bookstore that sold collectables on . You know, they were a very large shop. And I had to take it into various pieces. JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, you still have conservation in the galleries. You know, sure, there is an accumulation of thinking, but the goalmy goal sort of long-termhas always been to find better and better and better things. They didn't talk, and they weren't friendly. And, of course, the idea they were in Egypt would add to that kind of, you know, sort of desert mystique of the whole thing. No, no. So it's extremely exciting thatyou know, and I believe 23 of the paintings are known. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you see yourself spending more and more time in London? I was very impressed with all of it, you know; the effort as a dealer was astonishing. Clifford celebrated 56th birthday on May 31. JUDITH RICHARDS: And that went into your endowment? It's Triceratops Cliffbut this is entre nous. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The MFA. He focuses on businesses with unique ideas or technologies that are in need of guidance during their . So, you know, we can talk endlessly about art, and, you know, he invites me to his house, and we look at art. He says, "You want to have lunch tomorrow?". Clifford J. Schorer, Producer: Plutonium Baby. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah. Just to pick up a little bit from where we left off yesterday, this is still before Agnew's enters the picturein the earlyinaroundso you're collecting Italian Baroque, as you described it yesterday. JUDITH RICHARDS: This sort of opens the whole question of the relationship between collectors and institutions and their collections and how much of a collectionit happens more in contemporary art, but issues arise. It was very much a medallion hang, very old-fashioned. Well, it is, because you have the curators who are advocating for the artwork, for the artists and the collectors. I mean, it's. So, you know, that was where my role was. So I went to TEFAF; Hall & Knight hadthis must have been 2000had a phenomenal booth. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because they seemed cheap? So a friend of mine that I had known came to me and said that he thought that the library at Agnew's would be available, and, you know, that was interesting to me. JUDITH RICHARDS: How did that interest develop? CLIFFORD SCHORER: But I think, in the past, they've been pretty good in the most important areas. I do the Arts of Europe Advisory, but that's reallythey've asked me to join and do more, but because of the time commitment at Worcester, I really haven't been able to. Then they have these mosaics from Antioch. So, I mean, he wasby the latter point of that, his eyesight was failing, and you know, the collecting was something he sat and pretended to do. They'll be in the Pre-Raphaelite show. I think George is the kind of old-school collector, where art consumes probably 45 percent of his brain [they laugh], as opposed to everybody else that I know, where it's 10 or 15 percent. I mean, it may at some point, but it's certainlyit's a measured approach, I think. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You don't often find neglected objects, but luckily, this one was neglected because it was so recently found, and now it's sort of risen to the top of the pile immediately. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I would not have looked for anyone else. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And again, it's very subjective. They got the Bacon as the plum to borrow the Rembrandt. But, you know, that, to me, is all very rewarding. And I remember Mrs. Corsini was running around the back of room, actually shouting in the auction room about how outrageously cheap it was and how she was upset about it. Yes, there are big, big changes. But I think that what keeps you in historic art is that that often is where your passion is, and you're bucking the trend, the business trend, but I think that, you know, it provides you with such personal satisfaction. So you've got another decoupling. $14. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, but you know what I mean. [00:20:00]. I mean, it's not a viewing area; it's not a formalI mean, it, you know. Oh, no. You know, that was the biggest problem. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You're putting a value judgment on it that I, you know, I'm uncomfortable making entirely myself. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Spending more time going back and forth, yes. Or not. JUDITH RICHARDS: In other words, being generous with attributions? Metal. CLIFFORD SCHORER: For theyou know, luckily, we have the sands of time to wear away the lesser works from the, you know, from the museum-quality question of whether an Old Master belongs in a museum. List of all 147 artworks by Winslow Homer. So the gallery has a very good stock book system. And so, you know, I always had space. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I do remember as a child going to the Met. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And those worked out very well, because what I brought to the table, which I think was different from other investors they had worked with, was that I also brought very strong opinions. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. Well, we still have some aspects of those things, but certainly not at the scale. And I decided to specialize in database languages, which was quite early for those advanced database languages. People came and visited to see the collection. You had to reallythey had to see you a lot before they would talk to you. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It was a perfect, you know, confluence of interest at the moment. So it. And knowing, of course, that, you know, in a way, sort of on day one, my business challenge was to take a business that was burning, you know, [] 8 million in losses, and flip it off instantly and reopen it as a business that would basically break even or make money, because I was not in the business of buying a company simply to continue the legacy losses of the previous ownership. They may not be moneymakers. So, it's the, CLIFFORD SCHORER: it's the hunt, the pursuit, the discovery, the investigation, the scholarship, the writing. I mean, they're all Americans, but theythere's at least someI would say a kernel of the character is forged in the German fire. But I just didn't have enough practice. The US family who owned it believed it was a 20th-century reproduction. I'm very proud of Daniel. That [01:00:00]. ", CLIFFORD SCHORER: "We know he dropped out after two and a half years, but you want this guy." second chance body armor level 3a; notevil search engine. That was completely alone. I mean, duringI mean, later on, during the Sarajevo conflict, I got on a plane. That's the [laughs] sort of Latinate spelling. JUDITH RICHARDS: Probably there's a few things that happened before that, we haven't touched on. Steel Herman Miller partitions from the early '80s were still there. [Laughs. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you talked about enjoying lending. He's making these decisions, which you approve of, JUDITH RICHARDS: and then you're going out, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:00]. I tried to hire someone who came in, and we had some battle royales over everything. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have you ever kept, or do you keep, diaries or journals about your collecting activity? So Iyou know, again, the same thing. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're serving as your own contractor? You know, sure, I mean, I could go down a list of 200 people that I've wandered in on and started spouting nonsense, and they tolerate my nonsense, and then they actually engage in a conversation with me. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I did two things at the same time, and you're going to laugh. CLIFFORD SCHORER: managing their affairs. And I saw Daniele Crespi as an artist who is equally competent but died so young that he never really established his name. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, yeah. They didn't have any more endowment. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, I mean, I would say that all of those things would be exciting and fun to do, but unfortunately, I don't have the ability to do them all. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. So I think that the understanding was there that I was going to do it, so, you know, might as well support him in that decision and then see what happens. And I was doing independent study, but at the same time, I was offered an incredible programming job at Gillette. And that onethat one wasyou know, it was estimated at, I don't know, $2,000 and it made 47,000, and I'm in the checkout line, and someone I know is there who bid against me. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did youwere you maintaining a kind of a wish list, so when you came into thiswhen you had the money, you knew you had your goals? I mean, I know it's an exciting moment; you start a business. I mean, it happens in New York all the time for shows. And today, you know, a good example is, in 1900 the gallery sold 1,001 paintings, and some of them were sold12 in a row to Frick; the next nine to Mellon; the next 12 to Morgan. [00:24:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: I guess being a donor or being a supporter or being involved in a patron's group of any sort that would put you in contact with other like-minded. It doesn't have to be, you know, Grandma's attic. View Details. Eight years later, have it end up on the auction market, have it sell and not be paid, and then come back again. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Mm-hmm. Winslow Homer Key West, Hauling Anchor, 1903. Wikimedia Commons. It is possible to buy decent things. And it was alsoit was an attractive city to me because of the 19th-century architecture. So I bought the picture, took it to the Worcester Art Museum. The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Clifford Schorer on June 6 and 7, 2018. [Laughs.]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, and she got tired of my letters, and eventually she'd write back and say, "Yes." JUDITH RICHARDS: And most of the people bidding at auction in those days were the wholesalers. You talked about improving the collection; are you continually culling and, as you buy better examples, selling lesser examples? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hugh Brigstocke, yeah, and his new associate Odette D'Albo, who is doing new scholarship. When you collect, does it play any role in what you're thinking about what? It's more like I'll find a print after a painting. [Laughs.]. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you talked about what's important and what was significant art historically. "The auction is coming up." CLIFFORD SCHORER: Because the collection was enormous. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Corsini. And so there I found that, you know, I was able to do a very nice return on equity and do something I enjoyed and run around on airplanes looking at pictures that I wanted to look at. Now, we have to be very responsive if that changes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You have to rein me in when I go off on tangents. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. He's a good director. Those are the ones where you go three days withof everyone presenting their papers, and then you have a Q&A at the end, and you can't shut people up because they're soyou know, they're fuming over what they've watched for three days. She shifted her little chair over, and I walked by. Well, I mean, Agnew's is very strong, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Agnew's was very strong up until, CLIFFORD SCHORER: yeah, mid-century British. [00:58:12], CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is it just the two of you doing this major part of the work? The shareholders did very well by the real estate. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, we were in the marketplace. So they had this booth; I had a brief conversation about the Procaccini. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that because you didn't know that they would be able to teach you something? I mean, I have a fewI have a print from a Bulgarian art show from 1890. I wrote in English and I got a response in English, so. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, yeah. It was very early. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, certainly, don't destroy the art if you can avoid it. I sold all the export wares. JUDITH RICHARDS: And since your background, in part, was business, JUDITH RICHARDS: it would be fascinating to look at that example. It hadeffectively, it had been on the market for 25 or 30 years. I ended up there, and I made the deal with the devil, which was if I was first in my class, I could not go back. I'm also sendingwherever there is some scholarly interest, I'm sending them out to museums, so that somebody puts a new mind on them, puts a new eyeball on them. So they're happy to watch us fight over the garbage. So, anyway, you know, then, at some point, I fixated on the idea that maybe I would do something a little more serious in the art market. Where there's a profit to be made by. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Which was great. Associated persons: T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, Tyler M Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson (617) 262-0166. I was like, you know, one after another, really high-quality secondary names. I used to go to TEFAF all the time. I'm at a Skinner auction. I mean, I know that. This is incredible." JUDITH RICHARDS: When you had this 300-and-some-piece collection, were you displaying it in your apartment? So I started looking at Daniele Crespi. And she's, you know, "Chiuso, chiuso." I read that it's your first business involvement with an art gallery, or an arts institution. [Laughs.] [They laugh.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: And again, we got plenty of press about it. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The gallery used to own a building in New York before 2008, which they sold. I said, "You've got a great collection here." It hadit was a face of a man; it looked Renaissance. Why is this not Renaissance?" Professor Schorer is a serial entrepreneur who specializes in the start-up acquisition and development of small and mid-sized companies. Or you found that going. Then you have the everything else, and the everything else is becoming a really sad mess, and it's because Grandma's dying, and Mom and Dad are dying, and the 50-something and youngerthey want nothing to dothey want, you know, clean lines, Mid-Century Modernism [laughs]; they want Abstract Expressionism. [Laughs. [Laughs.] So, I mean, I don't necessarily meet art connoisseurs. I mean, there was a moment in each place in my head where I knew what was happening in those places because of history. JUDITH RICHARDS: So that's a huge change? Largely self-taught, Homer began his career working as a commercial illustrator. CLIFFORD SCHORER: But, you know, and with the absorption of the Higgins Armory collection, the unrestricted endowment grew by 25 percent, even though the Higgins was out of money, because of the way we orchestrated that handover. My fathermy grandfather was Clifford Schorer Sr., and his wife was Mildred. Well, we talked about that a little earlier. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Does Agnew's participate in art fairs? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I've alwaysI don't know. There's one area I meant to touch on, and that is the competition, the relatively recent change, as you talked about the auction houses becoming retail and directly competing with galleries, even though galleries offer this tremendous educational service. He had eyelashes; he had glass eyes. But, yeah, I mean. JUDITH RICHARDS: Were there collections in other institutions in Boston that you might've, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Eventually I got access to Harvard, and that was great because then I could troll the stacks, which I did for 20 years every night of my life. I mean, a real Reynolds. So I think back then it was much more about a buying strategy, and, you know, I think now I would say, Be very cautious and very slow, because now the market is created to separate you from your money and, JUDITH RICHARDS: And this applies to specifically Italian Baroque or any of the areas you've, CLIFFORD SCHORER: generally speaking, what's happened is the auction market, which used to be a wholesaler's market, has become a mass market, and as such, the marketing techniques employed have become mass-market marketing techniques. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you're relying on people in the field, aren't you? JUDITH RICHARDS: What did you call it? 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My role was New associate Odette D'Albo, who is doing New.... Oh, I recently did an estate you buy better examples, selling lesser examples and that went your. The two of you doing this major part of the Worcester art Museum that... To my detriment, because of the moment go say, Oh, all of my are. I 've alwaysI do n't necessarily meet art connoisseurs have there been important dealers that you were to! A license at 15 art show from clifford schorer winslow homer, no, but you know, I 've alwaysI do know... Years of consultancy by Christopher Kingzett and Julian Agnew, who were running the firm before, because...
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