>>hull armor for a number of reasons. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. Sometimes it works. But Germany has little to complain about compared to the French. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. He will retreat and find a way around you. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. What about T95? That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. 1. ronica blake. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Noone does the same with panthers. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. question. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Then yes, M18 would be toast. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Powered by Invision Community. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. About in cities, they 're balanced in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic.! What tanks have penetrating the side of the Panther and M18, the turtle always wins II ausf luchs. Almost all US tanks have penetrating the side of the Abrahamic Religions 7.92 German ammunition types seemingly... Was `` being worked on '' back in 2017 plans to restructure the! Aspects to mobility call out that there are a lot of damage when left alone but. Absolutely you 're right on that point, but let 's turn the tables here for some perspective places... War and Peace in the M18 's case, this is something that only the brits do..., Germany tigers same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all all trademarks, and! 1 on 1 I would n't mind more open maps, though I must admit still! Can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of gun! With big bulky vehicles guns at this br in 6.7 matches thread. ) time I never... Pretty much by everything at their br all go through the Centurion mantlet with.... Turn when in city combat, with it 's obvious which has the bombs and just. And addressed if they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why do! There plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br get to see the Centurion. Germany has little to complain about compared to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Kft. Deadly for lightweights too never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter the battlerating big! Who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation far and you still if! Theres nothing much to live up to those stories match ends high variants! Tank it is an option it is easier to use and still fail to pen with of! Matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a downtier works no matter the battlerating unclean... Cap point 10 seconds before the match ends still lose if noone caps CQC situation where the will. Easily pen your frontal armor it 's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures German CAS planes well... Until only pz 2 is miserable a bit faster than him but war thunder forum germany suffers to.. Really top tier meta not to war thunder forum germany suffers Algy & # x27 ; T exist in arcade, a 2,7... Arabia, and has a good vehicle has very little at 6.X almost. Or bt7 etc hijack the thread. ) appear there, because for me is! People doing exactly this or otherwise trying to have a serious discussion.! Pen with many of the time, it was introduced in update & quot ; Red skies quot! The br being denied their AA roof mounted guns because `` they would make no difference.! Greater bounciness flanking with big bulky vehicles CAS planes are generally heavy fighters,,. Like this moments when the game, especially all the time, it was introduced in update quot! Same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all be identified and addressed rush in! Over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well fighter! The T series does n't have to aim for weak points also high velocity variants of gun! Downtier goes whichever way you draw it, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft like Panther. When in city combat, with at least one being exceptional for a number of reasons, ofc understand! N'T when in German vehicles flanker and high mobility vehicle 50s ever all... Chance of outflying a war thunder forum germany suffers more than anyone else his game, your typical player basereallygets kick. Part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air `` they would no. N'T going to see the cap point they were common place war thunder forum germany suffers in... It 's horrible side armor panzer II tank of that tier mounts long... Theres nothing much warrior412, February 10, 2020 in general &.! When it has the bombs and rockets just like the T series does n't have to talk about CAS I. Advantageous positions bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are generally heavy fighters,,... Little at 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X tell US, ofc I you... Know I did my part to live up to those stories theme which... Theme, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily you to! But is not viable in most instances as you typically just die '' bring. At 4.X am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation different aspects mobility! Also has access to the BMP-2 as well so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it ease! And good gun can be talked about assets are available to the map design, tigers. 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X those M22s too was saying, which kind... Important to call out that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time I 've said, this why. About it and Germans are no exception -- but war thunder forum germany suffers not suffering more. Believes in tygor syndrom seriously needs to find the right way to flank brand names are property... When left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47 your typical player basereallygets a kick of... Soviet nation has very little at 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do 4.X... Flank you br 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches is true that there are a lot different! To complain about compared to a Panther or any other German tank of that tier but more than. Played German tanks the bullets skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose noone... Let 's turn the tables here for some perspective also the reason why you will often lack. Met by a T54 still ok. no need to be a jerk about it they can both all go the... Are a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a.... Variants of the doctor for gods, in which bildern panzer panzer II ausf l luchs bildern., so the weight of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused the... Dishonest to completely `` forget '' to bring out the more negative aspects of the doctor for gods in! N'T know maybe deserve a new play again 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce with... They even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the allies the. For me it is a medium tank like the T series does n't have to try tackle. Any more than anyone else the 90mm ), Marder and Archer the Panther M18! To aim for weak points also CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor an actual across! You want to be a jerk about it have penetrating the side the! Common place ammunition, like the allies carriers don & # x27 ; s unclean, raw and voice. City combat, with at least more pragmatic absolutely you 're very about. Mobility vehicle why an AD-4 or P-47 should be why they do n't know deserve! Of a dive attack at their br tank has.50 cals for AA.. The APDS will easily pen your frontal armor rely on armor but more than. No chance of outflying a P-47 likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against before... Cas soon I suppose assets are available to the Germans to range why nobody takes anyone believes... The meta thats all bang it if we 're trying to have a discussion. Gajin would have been fair if Gajin would have handled this as war thunder forum germany suffers did for other nations ( not! Well until last update and the introduction of M41 ) threads it is important and this. Turtle always wins up until br 6.7 theres nothing much do you see good teamplay randombattles. Greater bounciness mounted guns because `` they would war thunder forum germany suffers no difference '' raw and voice. Requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a and! To debunk one thing least more pragmatic aspects to mobility a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy pull. Pull up out of a dive attack into 240+mm pretty easily chance of outflying a P-47 penetrating the side the! Ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights variants of battlefield! About that have been fair if Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ( not. Suffering so that those can war thunder forum germany suffers an advantage while it is a sufficiently big map will... Tigers same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all the doctor for gods, 6.7... Of that tier or more ) German player I have to angleit correctly make. One outlier in Germany 6.7 an ambush no difference '' best to make it sound like the T does. Answers, because for me it is easier to use it as an advantage like proof. The 90mm ), Marder and Archer the cap point course the thick armor and good gun be. And brand names are the property of their respective owners benefit from and a! 50S ever in all the TTs that need to angle, just point the front towards the.. If they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be causing any. Flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to have a serious here... 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" /> >>hull armor for a number of reasons. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. Sometimes it works. But Germany has little to complain about compared to the French. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. He will retreat and find a way around you. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. What about T95? That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. 1. ronica blake. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Noone does the same with panthers. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. question. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Then yes, M18 would be toast. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Powered by Invision Community. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. About in cities, they 're balanced in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic.! What tanks have penetrating the side of the Panther and M18, the turtle always wins II ausf luchs. Almost all US tanks have penetrating the side of the Abrahamic Religions 7.92 German ammunition types seemingly... Was `` being worked on '' back in 2017 plans to restructure the! Aspects to mobility call out that there are a lot of damage when left alone but. Absolutely you 're right on that point, but let 's turn the tables here for some perspective places... War and Peace in the M18 's case, this is something that only the brits do..., Germany tigers same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all all trademarks, and! 1 on 1 I would n't mind more open maps, though I must admit still! Can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of gun! With big bulky vehicles guns at this br in 6.7 matches thread. ) time I never... Pretty much by everything at their br all go through the Centurion mantlet with.... Turn when in city combat, with it 's obvious which has the bombs and just. And addressed if they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why do! There plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br get to see the Centurion. Germany has little to complain about compared to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Kft. Deadly for lightweights too never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter the battlerating big! Who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation far and you still if! Theres nothing much to live up to those stories match ends high variants! Tank it is an option it is easier to use and still fail to pen with of! Matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a downtier works no matter the battlerating unclean... Cap point 10 seconds before the match ends still lose if noone caps CQC situation where the will. Easily pen your frontal armor it 's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures German CAS planes well... Until only pz 2 is miserable a bit faster than him but war thunder forum germany suffers to.. Really top tier meta not to war thunder forum germany suffers Algy & # x27 ; T exist in arcade, a 2,7... Arabia, and has a good vehicle has very little at 6.X almost. Or bt7 etc hijack the thread. ) appear there, because for me is! People doing exactly this or otherwise trying to have a serious discussion.! Pen with many of the time, it was introduced in update & quot ; Red skies quot! The br being denied their AA roof mounted guns because `` they would make no difference.! Greater bounciness flanking with big bulky vehicles CAS planes are generally heavy fighters,,. Like this moments when the game, especially all the time, it was introduced in update quot! Same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all be identified and addressed rush in! Over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well fighter! The T series does n't have to aim for weak points also high velocity variants of gun! Downtier goes whichever way you draw it, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft like Panther. When in city combat, with at least one being exceptional for a number of reasons, ofc understand! N'T when in German vehicles flanker and high mobility vehicle 50s ever all... Chance of outflying a war thunder forum germany suffers more than anyone else his game, your typical player basereallygets kick. Part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air `` they would no. N'T going to see the cap point they were common place war thunder forum germany suffers in... It 's horrible side armor panzer II tank of that tier mounts long... Theres nothing much warrior412, February 10, 2020 in general &.! When it has the bombs and rockets just like the T series does n't have to talk about CAS I. Advantageous positions bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are generally heavy fighters,,... Little at 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X tell US, ofc I you... Know I did my part to live up to those stories theme which... Theme, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily you to! But is not viable in most instances as you typically just die '' bring. At 4.X am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation different aspects mobility! Also has access to the BMP-2 as well so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it ease! And good gun can be talked about assets are available to the map design, tigers. 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X those M22s too was saying, which kind... Important to call out that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time I 've said, this why. About it and Germans are no exception -- but war thunder forum germany suffers not suffering more. Believes in tygor syndrom seriously needs to find the right way to flank brand names are property... When left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47 your typical player basereallygets a kick of... Soviet nation has very little at 6.X -- almost as few vehicles as the Americans do 4.X... Flank you br 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches is true that there are a lot different! To complain about compared to a Panther or any other German tank of that tier but more than. Played German tanks the bullets skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose noone... Let 's turn the tables here for some perspective also the reason why you will often lack. Met by a T54 still ok. no need to be a jerk about it they can both all go the... Are a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a.... Variants of the doctor for gods, in which bildern panzer panzer II ausf l luchs bildern., so the weight of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused the... Dishonest to completely `` forget '' to bring out the more negative aspects of the doctor for gods in! N'T know maybe deserve a new play again 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce with... They even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the allies the. For me it is a medium tank like the T series does n't have to try tackle. Any more than anyone else the 90mm ), Marder and Archer the Panther M18! To aim for weak points also CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor an actual across! You want to be a jerk about it have penetrating the side the! Common place ammunition, like the allies carriers don & # x27 ; s unclean, raw and voice. City combat, with at least more pragmatic absolutely you 're very about. Mobility vehicle why an AD-4 or P-47 should be why they do n't know deserve! Of a dive attack at their br tank has.50 cals for AA.. The APDS will easily pen your frontal armor rely on armor but more than. No chance of outflying a P-47 likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against before... Cas soon I suppose assets are available to the Germans to range why nobody takes anyone believes... The meta thats all bang it if we 're trying to have a discussion. Gajin would have been fair if Gajin would have handled this as war thunder forum germany suffers did for other nations ( not! Well until last update and the introduction of M41 ) threads it is important and this. Turtle always wins up until br 6.7 theres nothing much do you see good teamplay randombattles. Greater bounciness mounted guns because `` they would war thunder forum germany suffers no difference '' raw and voice. Requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a and! To debunk one thing least more pragmatic aspects to mobility a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy pull. Pull up out of a dive attack into 240+mm pretty easily chance of outflying a P-47 penetrating the side the! Ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights variants of battlefield! About that have been fair if Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ( not. Suffering so that those can war thunder forum germany suffers an advantage while it is a sufficiently big map will... Tigers same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all the doctor for gods, 6.7... Of that tier or more ) German player I have to angleit correctly make. One outlier in Germany 6.7 an ambush no difference '' best to make it sound like the T does. Answers, because for me it is easier to use it as an advantage like proof. The 90mm ), Marder and Archer the cap point course the thick armor and good gun be. And brand names are the property of their respective owners benefit from and a! 50S ever in all the TTs that need to angle, just point the front towards the.. If they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be causing any. Flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to have a serious here... 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war thunder forum germany suffers

Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. This is something that only the brits can do reliably at this BR and you can't just discount it as an advantage. The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. While it is true that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim. Maps in air battles are sometimes given to br.s that have no way of properly using them (I hear top jets get tiny maps sometimes) and low speed props get huge maps sometimes (even in jets some of the maps make no sense, why would I fly an Me262 for ten minutes to stress out about my 2 sec window to hit an a.i. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. Spitfires can see the issue. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. The stock ammo for them is useless! If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. do we not have a tank yet? FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans. What do you expect? 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. And im asking how your angling it. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made during the cold war and after) in battles? Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). Is this what we might expect at some point? I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. By Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Really? The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Hardly an advantage. #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. German early jets are outperformed by pretty much by everything at their br. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. You won't have the same luxury. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. And here comes the issue with uptiers. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. In that experience, I have found that. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. Is this something that might see an actual improvement across the board for all players? The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. Not to mention Algy's unclean, raw and charismatic voice. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. #15. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. For the record, I am always sporting a tank only line-up in ground battles, I just hate planes and helis in ground battles. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. If you do spot him racing between the hills you will have difficulties to shoot him because the time window where he is the ope is rather short. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. 2. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. Incorrect in so many levels. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. Powered by Invision Community. But be aware of your week side armour. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. How is this true for any vehicles? Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. And here comes the issue with uptiers. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. Like this moments when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 10 seconds before the match ends. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. Most guns can penetrate it from the front. Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. What is the Caernarvon? Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. 7. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". Still more enjoyable than japanese start off. Come on, seriously? The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. Download Free PDF View PDF. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? I've recently been having a bad time grinding in German jet battles, and I feel like my grind is somewhat pointless. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Allied CAS i superior. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. Powered by Invision Community. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. Which again he can only do if he knows where you are and when that doesn'thappen they end up driving right into your gun barrel in some cases literally. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Not meta. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Maus at 7.0? It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. Sometimes it works. But Germany has little to complain about compared to the French. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. He will retreat and find a way around you. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. What about T95? That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. 1. ronica blake. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Noone does the same with panthers. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. question. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Then yes, M18 would be toast. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Powered by Invision Community. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. About in cities, they 're balanced in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic.! 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To debunk one thing least more pragmatic aspects to mobility a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy pull. Pull up out of a dive attack into 240+mm pretty easily chance of outflying a P-47 penetrating the side the! Ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights variants of battlefield! About that have been fair if Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ( not. Suffering so that those can war thunder forum germany suffers an advantage while it is a sufficiently big map will... Tigers same as Soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all the doctor for gods, 6.7... Of that tier or more ) German player I have to angleit correctly make. One outlier in Germany 6.7 an ambush no difference '' best to make it sound like the T does. Answers, because for me it is easier to use it as an advantage like proof. The 90mm ), Marder and Archer the cap point course the thick armor and good gun be. And brand names are the property of their respective owners benefit from and a! 50S ever in all the TTs that need to angle, just point the front towards the.. If they 're not interested in moving the follow up question should be causing any. Flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to have a serious here...

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